Vancouver’s Mayor, Ken Sim, is a real Bitcoin fanatic who’s doing his half to get Vancouver’s metropolis council in addition to its residents to see what he sees in terms of Bitcoin.
And his efforts are beginning to bear fruit.
On December 11, 2024, the Vancouver Metropolis Council greenlit a movement Mayor Sim ready to begin making Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
The movement directs metropolis workers to discover the concepts of Vancouver establishing a strategic bitcoin reserve in addition to accepting taxes and metropolis charges in bitcoin.
In my dialog with Mayor Sim, we mentioned the passing of this movement in addition to a few of his deeper philosophical ideas about Bitcoin.
We additionally touched on what Bitcoin adoption in Vancouver would seem like in an ideal world, his personal journey down the proverbial Bitcoin rabbit gap and why Bitcoin can convey monetary hope to the residents of Vancouver at a time limit when many are struggling to make ends meet.
The Vancouver Metropolis Council just lately handed your movement to make Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
On a private stage, although, in case you may wave a magic wand and allow no matter stage of Bitcoin adoption you see slot in Vancouver, what would that seem like?
I’ve received to offer you a caveat right here. These are my very own private views. Now we have a fairly unimaginable workforce on the Metropolis of Vancouver, and so they’ve been tasked to discover. So, it is not as if I can actually affect the workforce and inform them “It’s important to do that and that.”
In an ideal world, the very first thing we’d do is add to a strategic reserve. The second factor can be permitting individuals to transact with bitcoin with out triggering capital positive factors tax occasions and to simply accept funds within the type of bitcoin. Tax regulation throughout not simply Canada, however within the U.S. and quite a lot of different jurisdictions, nonetheless hasn’t caught up, so each time you transact with bitcoin, there’s a capital positive factors tax price, which could be very cumbersome.
The third factor is that we begin the dialog and we bust the myths round narratives like Bitcoin is unhealthy for the atmosphere. That is all hogwash, proper? Bitcoin is definitely going to assist us save the atmosphere.
Plus, it offers us with an immutable file and it really provides to a stage of transparency we have by no means seen within the historical past of humankind. Having that included into our techniques can be nice.
You spoke about this course of of training individuals about Bitcoin on Natalie Brunell’s present. You mentioned you “bathe them with love and you then hit them with information.” Are you able to give an instance of what this appears like?
There’s quite a lot of resistance with Bitcoin, particularly because it pertains to its perceived results on the atmosphere. Folks hear this narrative that it is unhealthy for the atmosphere, and it is like, “Effectively, wait a second…”
I am an environmentalist, and I do know that in case you pressure organizations throughout the planet to do stuff that they don’t seem to be incentivized to do, nothing’s going to occur. Whereas in case you incentivize them — in case you construct in a reward system — it’s wonderful.
So, what do we all know? Effectively, we flare pure gasoline as a by-product of oil manufacturing, and if we really seize that and repurpose it for Bitcoin mining, it’s really good for the atmosphere. Similar with capturing methane that seeps from the bottom.
Additionally, with various or inexperienced vitality sources, be it wind energy or solar energy, the place the economics usually do not pan out to construct these tasks, you present somebody with a assured buyer within the type of Bitcoin miners, and the economics work and this stuff get constructed. So, it is internet constructive for the atmosphere.
There’s additionally this false narrative that nefarious issues occur with Bitcoin. That is rubbish, proper? Money is untraceable. With Bitcoin, we’re speaking about an immutable file the place you’ll be able to see each single transaction because the starting of time and you’ll catch individuals on the on and off ramps.
A few of the narratives are literally the exact opposite of actuality, and so now we have to counter these narratives.
Primarily based on my expertise, it is easy to show somebody one thing, whereas it is rather a lot tougher for individuals to unlearn, and we’re within the technique of serving to individuals unlearn what they’ve discovered.
You may have referred to Bitcoin as the best invention in human historical past. May you develop on that?
Our cash is damaged. Folks cannot use it to retailer their vitality into the longer term. We’re on this rinse and repeat cycle. In Ray Dalio’s e-book The Altering World Order, he talks concerning the rise and fall of the Dutch empire, the rise and fall of the British empire, the rise and, as he places it, fall of the U.S. empire. In case you agree with Dalio’s perspective, the purpose is that the cash’s damaged.
We wouldn’t have a reserve forex that is ever lasted. We maintain repeating historical past. However Bitcoin adjustments all that. As everyone knows, you’ll be able to’t mess with it, and you’ll’t manipulate it. It is a game-changer and once we lastly get onto the bitcoin normal — I believe it is a matter of when, not if — it may change how people work together with one another and the way nation states evolve.
You simply cited one in every of Ray Dalio’s books, and I’ve heard you focus on the way you’ve additionally learn books like The Bitcoin Customary and Layered Cash. You’re additionally a buddy of Jeff Sales space’s. With all of the studying you’ve carried out and the conversations you’ve had with Jeff, did you find yourself having a lightbulb second with Bitcoin or was it extra of a gradual studying course of?
Effectively, I had the alternative of the lightbulb second when my son Mitchell got here as much as me and mentioned “Dad, I need to purchase bitcoin.” And I used to be like, “You contact that shit, and I’ll punch you within the throat.” Clearly, I wasn’t going to do this.
Then, I began seeing extra of it and had conversations with Jeff. So, I began to look into it, learn a bunch about it and went to a few conferences. My journey was similar to quite a lot of different individuals’s. I used to be fully in opposition to it after which I warmed as much as it and ultimately turned an evangelist.
I can not level to anyone level the place it was like, “Wow, there you go” and I went 180 levels the opposite means. I do bear in mind although, I made my first $500 buy of bitcoin on November the 14th, 2020. The explanation it took me so lengthy was I needed to discover ways to use the app on which I purchased the bitcoin. It was all clunky — only a ache within the butt.
However I do not forget that day, as a result of after I lastly purchased it I assumed, “Did I miss out?” I believe I purchased it at like 16 or 17 grand and it had run from like seven or eight grand the month earlier than. I used to be like, “Did I miss it?” I bear in mind Jeff saying, “No, you’re nonetheless tremendous early; we’re all nonetheless tremendous early.”
You’ve talked about how unaffordable housing in Vancouver is. Does bitcoin repair this?
Sure. Let me provide you with an instance. Now we have a small studio rental up in Whistler (a city north of Vancouver). After we purchased it, it might have value 17.2 bitcoin. That is about 4 years in the past. By way of {dollars}, the property is up 36%, however when it comes to bitcoin, it is down one thing like 85%. As of as we speak, it prices like 3.3 bitcoin to purchase it.
By the best way, I am not giving funding recommendation. I am simply speaking a few theoretical, if this performs out the way it may. If sooner or later within the not so distant future, you’ll purchase a home in Vancouver for a bitcoin, what which means is you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for about US$106,000 or about CA$150,000 in case you purchased a bitcoin as we speak.
I am not telling individuals to take out a mortgage to purchase bitcoin — very removed from it. Go search monetary recommendation. However in case you consider bitcoin’s value will proceed to understand, you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for CA$150,000 within the close to future by shopping for a bitcoin proper now.
You’ve got introduced Bitcoin, a taboo topic, into the fold as Mayor of Vancouver, and also you’ve mentioned that doing so would possibly result in your not getting re-elected. Have you ever ever thought-about that the alternative could be true, that perhaps by embracing Bitcoin the individuals of Vancouver will need to re-elect you?
I am not too involved about that. I’ve no want to be a premier or prime minister. I am not a politician, although I am sitting on this position, which I actually honor, worth and take very critically. However the purpose was by no means to be in style. The purpose was by no means to get re-elected. The purpose was to do what I believed is true for the way forward for the Metropolis of Vancouver.
And so I could not sit again any longer and ignore this as a result of I really consider that this units town up for the following hundred years. Am I proper? We do not know, however now we have a fairly good feeling, and I really consider in it.
I believe voters, residents — it would not matter what facet of the political spectrum you sit on — are sick of politicians who do stuff simply to get re-elected. They need individuals to do what they consider is true, and I consider that is proper. If we do not get re-elected due to it, I can personally maintain my head up excessive and say, “You realize what? We caught to our values and we did what’s proper.” If it really works out, nice. I really assume it may work out, although.
It looks like a progressive metropolis like Vancouver — the primary metropolis in Canada to have a Bitcoin ATM — needs to be in favor of Bitcoin. Nevertheless, the earlier mayor tried to ban Bitcoin ATMs within the metropolis. Was there a response from the Vancouver group when the mayor did this?
I did not observe it too carefully on the time, so I do not know. I can not touch upon it. What I can touch upon is we do have quite a lot of politicians who will make coverage up based mostly on advantage signaling versus information. We’re a knowledge pushed administration, and we care concerning the future prosperity of our metropolis.
I believe the excellence right here is we select to have probably the most affect — we’re extra involved concerning the steak than the sizzle. If somebody could make an argument on why this can be a unhealthy thought based mostly on information, we’ll hearken to it. We would have it mistaken, however I can inform you nobody has been capable of assault our Bitcoin stance with information.
Bitcoin could be form of troublesome to make use of technically. So, to illustrate, in an ideal world, perhaps Bitcoin turns into authorized tender in Vancouver sooner or later, or if there’s simply higher adoption of it, do you are concerned concerning the technical difficulties related to utilizing Bitcoin? Would the Vancouver metropolis authorities ever become involved in educating its Vancouver residents about Bitcoin?
It is not one of many core providers we offer as a metropolis, so I do not see us happening the tutorial rabbit gap. We’ll go away it as much as different consultants.
If the trade makes Bitcoin easier to make use of, so many extra teams and people will simply hop on the bandwagon. And you already know it is coming as a result of there are lots of people engaged on this proper now.
I am not an skilled, however after I, after I hear about among the issues which might be taking place on Layer 2s and the Lightning Community, I see a future the place that is seamless. When individuals go right into a Walgreens and so they purchase a sweet bar, they received’t take into consideration how they’re paying with Bitcoin. All of the plumbing beneath will occur with out them realizing, and it may revolutionize the planet.
You’ve got carried out a handful of interviews on this subject up to now. Is there something that we within the media haven’t requested you but that you just’d like to debate or level out?
Sure, I’d prefer to make a common name out and never only for town of Vancouver. It is for each single metropolis and province and state and jurisdiction and canton, and nation on the planet.
Now we have to get the schooling on the market, which remains to be a tough problem. Some individuals within the media have made the remark that what we’re doing proper now’s extra advantage signaling, as a result of now we have the hope of creating this occur. That is incorrect, although.
We’d like Bitcoin supporters to begin pumping the true narrative of why bitcoin is a sound monetary asset. It is the very best performing asset within the final 16 years on the planet. And we’re not merchants, so in case you’re not trying to day commerce, the entire volatility would not matter.
We have to begin getting that narrative out, however not from me, from the group. We have to let our elected officers know this as a result of they don’t seem to be going to do something till individuals hit them with information and inform our legislators that they need this.
We’re doing this as a result of we consider in it. We need to get forward of it. We need to arrange town for the following 100 years, and that is why we’re prepared to take political threat to do that. However we want assist. So, in case your viewers can assist us push that narrative with our provincial authorities and of their jurisdictions, as nicely, that may be nice.
If individuals come onboard and see how bitcoin can scale back among the monetary stress of their lives, do you assume Vancouver transforms right into a pro-Bitcoin metropolis comparatively shortly?
Sure.
I am going again to my sister-in-law, who if she watches the video she’s gonna punch me within the face. About 13 years in the past, she was afraid of getting an iPhone. She did not perceive the know-how. It was a psychological block.
Then, she jumped on the bandwagon like everybody else, as a result of all her buddies had iPhones. It is ridiculous now to assume that folks had been afraid of iPhones, proper?
Will Bitcoin give us hope? Completely.
I am going again to the Metropolis of Vancouver and why that is so essential. The Metropolis of Vancouver exists in the identical situations as everybody else does. Whereas individuals cannot afford a house or they’re scuffling with groceries, now we have a finances.
Now we have to rent law enforcement officials, firefighters, engineers, and we’re dwelling in an atmosphere the place our forex is getting debased and we will not improve taxes at a charge that retains up with that. We do not need to lower providers, and so Bitcoin offers us hope the place we will repair our monetary state, our stability sheet.
And that can really assist us run this metropolis for the following hundred years. I believe when individuals perceive Bitcoin and so they begin to undertake it, they may have hope, as nicely, as a result of they may notice their buying energy goes up, which is a superb factor.